Do you also think Denmark is too OP?

Discussion in 'General Discussions' started by Aistis1990, Dec 17, 2016.

  1. Aistis1990

    Aistis1990 Active Member

    So what do you think of it? share your thoughts.

    As Far I know devs did a very good decision that they gave 90 Hitpoints for Denmark Musketeers.
    But still their creating speed is very big , and if anyone playing millions , or long pt games Denmark overwhelms anyone. 4,68 creating time I think is too short. +1/4 might solve the problem for balancing purposes. As well I really like Skins on Denmark Grenadiers. But why would anyone make grenadiers? While they are no match for musketeers? 120 Hitpoints + bayonet power is awesome. But 12 shooting power vs 60... Oh come on I think It's useless :) . I think that something should be done either with Denmark Musketeers or with Other Nations with Common musketers/Grenadiers for balancing purposes. ;)
     
  2. colonelburton

    colonelburton Active Member

    I agree.
    I like Danemark but ...

    Their musketeers of the 18th century must have a production time at least similar to the Prussians.
    Why are they launch grenades? so, it's usless to product grenaders
    Their grenaders are useless at present, because their firepower is ridiculous compared to the musketeers and the musketeers do the same job ...

    Please ! increase the time of production !
     
  3. Marius

    Marius Member

    I also find it very weird that denmark have 116 damage musketeer with 4.6s build time, while other nations have 23 damage and 4.6s buildtime, who thinks that this is good for anything
     
  4. Aistis1990

    Aistis1990 Active Member

    Denmark can max their shooting power to 117 while common muskets/grenades to 22.
    Still what bothers me that almost all nations have their muskets same building speed but if you compare 117 vs 22... Ok let's say we start making muskets. Venice vs Denmark. I can make 800 musketeers , enemy makes 800 musketeers as well. We go into a battle and what we get? My 800 musketeers gets killed in 6 seconds while my enemy gets like 30 unit casualties... So... still I don't get it.
    To make matters worse now Denmark can make as well same number of stables like any other nation.
    So... :

    shooting range is top ,
    shooting power is top,
    creation speed is top.

    Ok... they got 90 Health so fully upgraded 18c. dragoons might counter them in 1 shot. But dragoons somewhat has slightly shorter shooting range than den muskets , shouldn't dragoons as a rule shot first? They're sitting on horseback , and it's logic that since they're higher they should have better view and shooting range than den muskets am I not right?

    My question for Devs stands : Why does Russia have their stables cost same as in c1 , while denmark has different? In C1 Denmark had super powered musketeers but they could build 5 stables , and 6th cost almost same as making 9th stable for other nation...

    I really like Denmark here , It's just playing with it vs common nation feels like I'm a cheater. There's something must be done to maintain its strength as well bring more balance and justice into a gaming.
     
    Obolo4go likes this.
  5. kongxinga

    kongxinga New Member

    Why is everyone playing hour long peacetime and millions? Is the game supposed to be balanced for this setting? I assume the game is balanced for the default settings, and the further you get away from that the more strange balance gets.
     
  6. Setakat

    Setakat Member

    IIRC different nations were designed for different resource/pt starts.
    Algeria/Turkey were intended for 1K res & 0/short pt starts.
    Prussia, Bavaria (when introduced) & Denmark (and possibly Ukraine/Saxony) were intended for 1M/long pt starts.
    All of the other nations seemed to be aimed at 5k/10k res and medium pt starts.

    Given that Prussia, Bavaria & Denmark have 18thc Musketeers that are practically snipers, capable of killing infantry in one hit its no wonder most games end up with start settings favouring them.
     
  7. Falc09

    Falc09 Active Member

    The trade off should be: build a few elite units or build many simple units

    The ability to produce many elite units (as it is at the moment) destroys any balance and makes some nations completly worthless
     
  8. Aistis1990

    Aistis1990 Active Member

    But here's the funniest part : There's no ranking so you win you loose it doesn't matter. But even newbies takes Denmark in any game settings (just to win) :D Ofc any other nation might defeat them if Let's say I'm with Spain in 45 PT make 6 18c barracks and guy with Denmark made only 1...

    I understand if this game would have balance even official testers might help a lot. Ok let's say we have different nations for different kind of rules.
    But it's just made on separate basis = Algeria is strong in 0 pt low res games , but later on each minute it becomes weaker... Turkey is strong at the same rules , but still it might maintain its strength for some time. What i truly miss is balancing. To make some nations a bit stronger at 0 pt low res games , others make slightly stronger at high end game. :)
    The good example is Swiss nation in C1 . They had swordsmen similar to Austrian Roundshiers so It's balanced for 0 pt games to counter turk/alg even survive vs merc dragoons. Later on you can make 17c Muskets and later kind strong Grenadiers and Hussars.

    Austria as a nation for example has Roundshiers what makes it balanced european power in 0 pt games , but It's 18c pandours has too long creating time. IF you compare with Highlanders It's... : Creation time : 5 highlanders vs 3 pandours. 55 Shooting power vs 58 Shooting power. 100 HP vs 85 Hp. It make's Austria suck.

    Spain is a mess for example good for nothing nation. Maybe it can fight in art games but it's pretty weak. NO advantages in 0 pt games , no advantages even after.

    France as a nation id say is pretty well managed in longer game. They have zerg of 18c dragoons King's musketeers are omg awesome in 17c games. But still it lacks something for 0 pt games.

    Venice is good for nothing nation as well : the only advantage is cheap horseman production speed upgrade.

    What I'm thinking that there should be not such a huge difference for a shooting power between Power nation Muskets and European power muskets. Let's say Common countries can earn 40-45 shooting power. Light Infantry 70-90 shooting power. Prussian 106 shooting power is pretty well managed. Let's say we using defensive positions : Austrian Roundshier has decent creation speed with all defences it cannot be shot 1 hit from Prussian muskets. Even decent formations with Stand ground options would have 109 hitpoints so not 1 hit shot. Balance means everyone has some strong points and everyone has how to counter them. Denmark does not have any weakness in later game. They can build same amount of Stables as any other nation , while in C1 you could have a chance vs den by having more hussars to raid it. Now... you can't beat it. Let's say we take England or France nation in 30-45 Pt or million game. Still Denmark beats them like bunch of noobs.

    Denmark should have slightly lower shooting range than pruss muskets. Because they can 1 shot almost anyone even in tight formations , they can be created faster.
    If Kings musketeers have such a lame shooting range if compared with 17c dragoons. Why not decrease it's muskets range a bit? I'm writing because I see huge difference how even few : "mistakes" can ruin whole gaming experience :)
     
  9. [KGR]-^K[o]K^-

    [KGR]-^K[o]K^- Moderator Staff Member

    Its just fine...

    no power vs no power (nations)
    half power vs half power (nations)
    power vs power (nations)
    mirror match (same nation vs same nation)
     
    [WW]Prototype likes this.
  10. Milkman

    Milkman New Member

    No. Denmark is generally not OP is most cases. Only in millions of resources games or 5000 with 45pt or longer. At 30pt 5000 i generally have no trouble disposing of any Denmark/Prussia player with ukraine or Turkey. And that is with cossacks 3 nerfed Ukraine XD
     
  11. grizzgolf

    grizzgolf Member

    I haven't had an issue with Demark vs the AI yet. I'm scared to do it online
     
  12. [WW]Prototype

    [WW]Prototype Active Member

    How can i dislike this post?))
     
  13. Samuelius

    Samuelius New Member

    I agree with you others who thinks Denmark is OP too... shooting range is...ROFL... Just put 400 Prussia musketeers vs 400 denmark musketeers and Prussia got totally wiped... casualties on Denmark side around ~130 dead...so ~270 denmark musketeers left...
    Even that denmark musketeer has a weaker defence stats and HP, while Prussia can be upgraded to 21 defence, the denmark can have only 6 but it is totally useless difference compared to shooting power, when literally nothing! can get close to them...everything dies.

    Also I agree with the nonsense about Dragoons shooting range... The dragoons should have the longest range! And besides I miss some "shooting range stats" in every shooting units stats. When Days of Brilliance were fresh released I played with friends, some have chosen Denmark as his nation and I choosed France. Later in game I was very angry...my maxed King Musketeers with 196+2 shooting power were like nothing against 120 my friend's Denmark musketeers...why... Isn't France quite well balanced that one King musketeer has ~30s creating time? ...

    In last games I play only Denmark, because I like some pt and longer games, to have many upgrades, 18c etc... in this kind of games we only have 2 options - to make a deal that no player will take Denmark, or we play all with denmark...Because as you wrote earlier - the only way to defeat Denmark is with rushing nations/ 0 pt, to destroy Denmark before it even goes to build 18c barracks...

    The best solution I think would be to give better shooting range to Prussia musketeers and some other disadvantages (same as prussia muskets creating speed is ~7,5 sec). This would make Denmark some kind of other "Prussia-like nation". Or balance shooting range/fire power/ fire speed in every nation in a way that wouldn't make Denmark musketeers unbeatable killers/deadliest unit ever.

    What can we do with this? Are Devs even watching this forum? If not, should we send them many emails to their support? heh...
     
  14. Daddio

    Daddio Moderator Staff Member

    Denmark vs Prussia is a pretty good game.

    these two are pretty well balanced. Yes they both have OP shooters, but Prussia has a stronger Calvary presence which off sets their slightly less powerful shooters.

    Of the power nations, Prussia, Denmark, and Ukraine, Prussia is my favorite.

    All of these nations have the possibility of winning a fight.

    It is the player that makes the difference.

    And its your preferred style of play that makes you think one is more powerful that the other.

    Dig into each nation and learn their secrets. Each one must be played differently to win.

    Good gaming,

    Daddio
     
  15. Aistis1990

    Aistis1990 Active Member

    And Den musketers can destroy buildings ^^
     
    Samuelius likes this.
  16. Samuelius

    Samuelius New Member

    After last update I am getting similar feelings to what you described. Prussian musketeers now with fire power upgrades can defeat danish ones. Prussia is quite my favorite nation too, so I am rly glad for that. But before it was insane...

    But still, what do you think about that they can throw grenades? Was that in C1? I haven't played C1 that much so I don't remember.
     
  17. Foeurdr

    Foeurdr Moderator Staff Member

    The danish musketeer always had the ability to throw grenade but if your opponent had upgraded the defense of building they aren't really usefull since they can't have their grenade attack increased unlike real grenadier.
     
  18. Very overpowered, the swedes Always bea them!
     
  19. Karol Tott

    Karol Tott New Member

    Denmark is powerful only in the late-game. From my experience, most games with random players in multiplayer get resolved in 20-30 minutes after the peace time ends, so when playing games with 0-30 minutes of peace Denmark is equal to other western nations. In my opinion a XVII century decently-sized army consisting of fully upgraded pikemen, reiters, mercenary dragoons and artillery is able to beat any early XVIII century army.
     
  20. Aistis1990

    Aistis1990 Active Member

    Nope That's the case. Den Musketers deals around 460 Dmg to buildings. After upgrades buildings gets 135 defence. So Den Musketeers still destroy buildings gast enough something like dealing ~300 dmg. While archers and grenadiers w/o upgrade will hit for 1 dmg ;)
     
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