Discussion in 'Modding' started by Privateer, Sep 22, 2016.
We need touch the 3D unit model itself. Is the 3D unit model import/export tool available now?
My direction would be to make it as natural an (unofficial) expansion pack as possible (like how subtle Mod1 was).
So - it will be a C3 'expansion' to fit in with the current C3 gameplay. The biggest change will be of course a new starting age. With the mod being as close as the current C3 gameplay as possible, people could use it as a 'base' of sorts - create a bigger mod for the whole of C3 with completely difference balance and maybe morale and experience BUT with a 'vanilla' expansion mod to build upon as well.
For the start, I think new skins for common units such as Pikes would do the trick for their 16th brothers as long as their form is similar (for example, armoured pikes were very similar looking from 16th - 17th century).
Anyway, I've love to hear everyones' opinions of suggestions.
So what would be needed is:
A new starting age - 1500s
16th Century Barracks (would need some unique, fitting national buildings for each civ)
16th Century Stable ( the 17th/18C Stables would get too cramped otherwise)
16thC Barracks unit roster: (some unit choices dependent on region/civ):
16thC Armoured/unarmoured Pikemen Defensive/anti-cav
16thC Sword & Bucklers Anti-Pike/general-use
16thC Halberdier Unarmoured general use melee
16thC Officer, Drummer, Flagbearer Command units
16thC Arquebusier/Crossbowmen Light shooter
16thC Musketeer Heavy shooter
16thC Calivermen Light skirmisher
Notable Unique Infantry units: Aventuriers crossbowmen (French), Billmen Halberd-like infantry (England), Longbowmen Crossbowmen replacement (England), Landsknechte Doppelsöldner anti-pike two-handed swordsmen (Mercenary), Landsknechte/Swiss Pikemen (Mercenary), Rodeleros Sword & Bucklers (Spain)
16thC Stables unit roster:
16thC Man-at-Arms Heavy melee cav
16thC Demi-Lance Medium melee cav
16thC Cuirasser Heavy shooter cav (has light melee capability)
16thC Pistolier/Reiter Medium shooter cav (has light melee capability)
16thC Mounted Arquebusier (or Harquebusier) /16thC Petronels Light shooter cav
Notable Unique Cav units: Border Horse Light horse (England), Gendarme Elite heavy melee cav (France), Black Rider heavy shooter cav (Mercenary), Stradiot Light lancer (Mercenary), Jinetes Shield and Javelin light horse (Spain), Herreruelos pistolier cav (Spain)
There's still artillery to add as well as misc units like Tabors armed/armoured defensive wagon (Poland/Ukraine) and Gulyay-gorod mobile field fortifications (Russia).
I'm horribly western-Europe focused and even then I've probably missed out some unique units from the region anyway, so if you have suggestions for any nation (could do with all nations having unique units!), let me know, then I can post them up here and add to the roster!
The roster seems good for me, as the mod is not even start and we can not edit the 3d model itself yet, I can't demand more.
One thing I want to say is that the Landsknechts after 1550 are quite different form the Landsknechts in late 15-early 16 c, I would show you some pic later.
I hope you could distinguish early Landsknechts and late Landsknechts in your mod. But as the mod is in early stage, seeing Landsknecht is your roster is good enough.
P.S. What nations/factions do you plan for the mod?
Also, these might be good refereance for you:
Actually that would have been more like this:
16th century pikemen: the 17th century pikemen that are in the game now
16ty century arquebusier: a bit like the spanish 17th century musketeer that is in a the game now, slightly armored.
17th century musketeer: nothing changes from the one we already have
17th century pikemen: unarmored, only with helmets
18th century musketeers: a bit longer in size with higher rifles
18th century pikemen: like those in the game
And for cavalry: 16th century= raiders with spinning wheel pistols, melee cavalry
17th century= beginning of dragoons, faster heavy cavalry
18th century= classic cavalry types hussard, cuirassier dragoon
That's amazing can you show every nations (ingame) units ? That can be exactly what everybody is waiting for !
Those are nothing but some Civilization3 unit graphic. Ingame image are not worth to show as they're 2d and very small. I post them only for referance purpose.
there is one thing I pretty much dislike in cossacks (most of you already know) and that are private upgrades, upgrades which makes only one unit stronger. Sorry but I find it SOOO stupid, that there are different devensive upgrades for lets say drummer, of yeah 17c drummer requires a different training technique than 18c drummer.
While that is already bad enough in C1 with only two centuries it got much worse in imperia.
especially dragoons. nice I reached 18c, theoretically I could make my academy gunpowder upgrades to make my shooter stronger but if I would do so all units without private gun damage upgrades would be GARBAGE.
If the upgrading technique would be better (doesnt matter if you do first academy or first private upgrades). I thing a mod hat would play from 16-19c with FOUR different epoches would be amazing.
Thank you for those reference pics - they are great as a starting point.
Nations would be the exact same as the current ones for the moment, as I was it to appear as an expansion of sorts, however I would love to add more, including more German/Italian states, Republic of Ragusa (Dubrovnik/Croatia), Scottish and Irish (would be fun with their Kerns, Gallowglass mercenaries and Chieftains!), though obviously that would require far too much work in terms of unique buildings etc, plus 17th and 18th intergration. As I said previously my ideal outcome would be a 16th expansion easily 'slotted' into the original game with compatability with other mods from other people with the aim of 'rounding out' C3.
Regarding early and Late Landsknects, I would love to use this notion and apply to all units (early Demi-Lance were purely semi-armoured light lancers, however late Demi-Lancers used pistols as well as lance, and German Rieters used Boar Spears, Arquebuses & Pistols early on, then focused on pistols as their primary weapon later on), however this may prove difficult. For the time being I would stick with the aesthetics/uniforms that were used predominately or during the mid/late 16thC, but I may experiement and see if it's possible for the normal, personal upgrades at the barracks to change their model, for example, the Landsknechte would beging in the early style, then say after a couple of attack/defences training upgrades, he would appear in late. They are all things to think about after as it would be a big job - you would need to apply that to a lot of units (don't want to miss any out!).
1. A brief comparison of Early and Late Landsknechts:
I have more Landsknecht pics, I just bought this book from Amazon, tell me if you need any Landsknecht pics.
2. More civ3 unit graphic referance:
3. Some websites you may find useful referance pics:
I really agree with you in all you said but I think at first it would be already nice if there was a mod with 16th, 17th and 18th well made centuries.
Build it and they will play! It would be a great mod. Are you envisaging 3 centuries and thus three tech levels of 16th C, 17th and 18th C? I regard late 18th C warfare as lasting until 1812 (Waterloo). The French persisted with column tactics and Wellington defeated them repeatedly with line tactics. The downfall of Napoleon was perhaps the definitive end of column tactics, although line tactics had existed well before Wellington of course. However, increased fire power and accuracy (and knowing how to use them) made line tactics very viable for Wellington. The late fire power in C3 is easily good enough for line tactics. The 18th C muskets need to produce faster though and the musket power needs to be averaged a bit across the nations. Prussian muskets, for example, can't be left so over-powered unless they produce slower as well as costing more.
Actually, I would give the 18th C Barracks another bonus. They should be able to produce the 18th C muskets and and grenadiers simultaneously (with the grens taking about 4 times as long). Either that or do what OC Davout's OC Mod did and let 17th C Barracks make 18th C muskets in the 18th. Who wants 17th C pikes any more? And have the 18th Barracks making grenadiers and skirmishers (sharpshooters like the highlander for the English). Create new formations including open skirmish formations to back up this style of mod.
This is already largely done, I added 18th century units to the 17th century barracks already, just haven't put the requirement yet. As for skirmish formations, a friend of mine already gave pandurs, the French hunters and British Highlanders skirmish formations like in HEW without them requiring any officers.
That'd be me, with this: http://www.cossacks3.com/forum/inde...-formation-handling-engine-improvement.27388/
I actually made a system in which firepower does that, but didn't like it so much, because it rendered attack columns less effective with firepower upgrades XD
But you make a fair point, it was historical...
French army weapons and costumes, 16c
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