OLD COSSACKS MOD ALMOST READY FOR RELEASE TO PUBLIC

Discussion in 'Modding' started by (OC)Fotheringill, Mar 13, 2017.

  1. (OC)Fotheringill

    (OC)Fotheringill Active Member

    After extensive modding and testing, our mod is almost ready for release to C3 players.

    Most, if not all, of the modifications will pleasantly surprise you.

    Our modders will post here with more details when appropriate, but there are just a few spoilers below:

    Flat market where no reverse trading can occur. No more market watch to make sure you steal someone else's work in lowering the exchange rate. This is quite different that the present choice of market or no market at all.

    A diplomatic center with radically changed costs for units. Gone will be the days of being early rushed by 300 18th century diplo dragoons. In fact, you won't be able to purchase even one in the 17th century.

    You will have much more use of the little used 17th century barracks musketeers (the change I like best).

    Various and wide ranging changes in the cost of upgrades in the academy, barracks, stable and artillery depot.

    Gone will be playing against and with those exploiters who mass officers for attacks and use drummers as a screen for them or to even guard mines. Four or five 14 year old boys with musical instruments will no longer be able to defend mines until support arrives because their defensive upgrades are too powerful. Officer upgrades have been nerfed quite a bit on offense and defense.

    You will be thinking more of overall strategy and tactics instead of micro management of economy.

    MUCH more to follow -------------------------
     
    Loner likes this.
  2. Emperor Highlander

    Emperor Highlander Highlander Staff Member

    I am looking forward to seeing this.
     
  3. A. Soldier

    A. Soldier Active Member

    I agree with all of these changes.

    However I would still like to see a mod that adds the Flag Bearers to formations like the old OC mod for Cossacks, more realistic combat and perhaps add Blockhouses to the game as a default building.

    A morale system would also be a good addition to the game, the problem is that at the current moment no one really knows how to implement it properly.

    Cheers.
     
    General WVPM likes this.
  4. Emperor Highlander

    Emperor Highlander Highlander Staff Member

    I think when it comes to moral system it takes away the Cossacks feeling and puts our mind into American Conquest.
     
  5. Francesco_Cavalli

    Francesco_Cavalli Active Member

    I've seen a couple of posts on steam arguing morale would take away all the fun due to having to micromanage fleeing troops, etc. To be honest, I've stopped playing because I'm so fed up of the ridiculous casualties suffered by having to fight battles to the last man, usually every five minutes because the ai churns out so many men.

    It would be so much more satisfying to realistically break and run down an enemy army than have to constantly produce new armies to replace those wittled down by kamikazee pikeman and dragoons. It annoys me every day that I can't easily think of a way to even simulate morale, let alone add it!
     
    Loner, Daddio and General WVPM like this.
  6. A. Soldier

    A. Soldier Active Member

    I think this is why there is a dire need of hard-core realism seeking people like us for American Conquest 2 or a DLC that adds Cossacks 2 mechanics to the main game of some sort.

    We want standard bearers, we want morale, we want active defenses, and we can't mod them in because we are limited in our knowledge of the game engine and tools.
     
    Last edited: Mar 14, 2017
    General WVPM likes this.
  7. Daddio

    Daddio Moderator Staff Member

    While there are many aspects of the game that need more realism. Quite a lot can be done, and is being done to make game play more realistic within the limitations of modding experience, and engine capability. OC Mod has a completely different feel to it. Some will like it, some will not as with any game. I will play nothing else, it is so much better. But this is just the first step in a thousand step process.

    A lot has been done, but even more to do. It is a great Mod. Fotomish should be proud! But I wish he would change his name to something I can spell.
     
    General WVPM likes this.
  8. (OC)Fotheringill

    (OC)Fotheringill Active Member

    ...or properly pronounce.

    phonetically it sounds like ftoomsh.

    Soldier and Emperor- my first post was only a teaser to pique interest in the upcoming release. There is a whole lot more going on in the mod.

    Pikes, both 17th and 18th century (a forgotten unit) have a new and different importance in the overall game strategy.

    Francesco- cavalry will destroy fleeing troops once we can integrate morale into the mod. Alas, that is a long way off.

    Blockhouses (log cabins)- I know that I have played a mod by General WVPM that had blockhouses already at the start of the game as well as two towers. It is certainly something to consider.

    With added range and effectiveness (already done) for howitzers, that lumping of shooters should be a thing of the past. What about multi barrel cannons? Are they in the mod? (a rhetorical question since I already know the answer).

    I can echo a sentiment stated by Daddio with a bit of paraphrasing- Once you play the mod, even as it presently exists, you most probably won't ever want to go back to the game you purchased and downloaded through Steam.

    I will close with another little teaser- Have you ever wanted formations less than 36 units for recon in force or as a perimeter defense around your base to fend off raiders until your cavalry can go to the area to support?
     
  9. A. Soldier

    A. Soldier Active Member

    I still want to see standard bearers for each nation's formations :p
     
  10. (OC)Fotheringill

    (OC)Fotheringill Active Member

    I can understand that and certainly agree. What priority, though, would you assign to that addition with so much else just plain old wrong with the game?
     
  11. A. Soldier

    A. Soldier Active Member

    I'm not actually forcing anybody to make it, I just had the idea of making it, however due to time limitations, as well as laziness, and my limited understanding of the engine and code unlike my friend General WVMP, I am unable to do it.

    But I had a slight idea of how to do it, however like I said I was too lazy to manually do formations for each nation with the added standard bearers, that's all.

    If it works how I think it will work, then it's just time consuming to set each nations' formations, if not then it's more complicated than that and will require more time than just listing each nation's formations.

    I just wanna see how cool it would look, for now, until morale is added and they are given a purpose, that is all.
     
  12. (OC)Fotheringill

    (OC)Fotheringill Active Member

    If you misread my "tone" in the above, I apologize. It is a frustrating process to fix something that should have been planned out more carefully by the devs.
     
  13. A. Soldier

    A. Soldier Active Member

    Excuse me as well, I'm just really tired.

    And yes I agree with you.
     
  14. Ftoomsh

    Ftoomsh Well-Known Member

    Yes, OCMOD3 V1.0 is very close to release. I would say release will be in the next day or two. I can say this as I am the release manager. :)

    Like many mods, we were hit hard by the last big patch. It broke our mod for quite a while as there were some tricky changes to certain files. Then we had to merge, re-balance and re-test. Now that particular set of issues is past. But as everyone knows, modding when the base game keeps changing rapidly is quite difficult. At the same time, we are happy that the base game keeps being improved. This helps mods in the long run also.

    I will post a comprehensive list of changes very soon (next 24 hrs most likely). The idea with OCMOD3 is to make a very different style of game. The vanilla game is a great game in its own right and many people, I would guess about 80%, love that style of game. Then there are another 20% (a guess again) who want a different style. These are mainly, but not exclusively, the people we are aiming at. Some who love vanilla might come to enjoy both styles of game, who knows?

    The style of game in OCMOD3 is less about raiding and more about steady build-ups and larger army clashes. There is a much greater need to use formations and to use combined arms, meaning to combine pikes, muskets, cavalry and artillery in coordinated ways in battles. This more positional style, with less streaming of loose units and less wild raids, does lead to longer games. It's about enjoying more game phases or stages and games lasting anything from say 30 minutes to 90 minutes.

    It's an extensive re-balance Mod. It also incorporates the great work of General WVPM with his Flexible Formations System, Range Damage System and Reload System. General's work brings more extensive formation bonuses and other goodies. So far, we have only partly exploited the extra modding flexibility General has given us. His systems have so much more potential to be utilized yet. To give you an idea of changes already made... Different formations move at different speeds. Columns are the fastest and are marching columns not attack columns. Their shape might yet change to reflect that. Infantry lines, for line or linear tactics, have the best bonuses and move at a reasonable pace. Squares move very slowly but get big extra bonuses on hold ground. Cavalry with cold steel are strongest in attack wedges (selected by the column button).

    The Range Damage system means if you hold fire and fire when the enemy are closer you get more kills from the volley. However, let the enemy come too close and they will be inside your minimum range (which admittedly is reduced in most cases). You will need practice to master this but you can also allow fire-at-will at maximum range. Kill rates from maximum range volleys are still reasonable. The Reload System means muskets cannot reload while moving or fleeing. They must stand still to reload. Muskets without bayonets definitely need pikes or other cold steel to shelter behind while reloading.

    The market is moderated with poorer prices and no reverse trading. You need to directly gather all resources. Trading is a secondary and emergency measure. Mercenary units produce slower and are much more expensive. Battles take longer so you have more time to maneuver and bring up reserves. The new systems are so exacting though, you will still have plenty to do if you like to gain advantages from tactical micro.

    As you can see, all of these changes make it a very new type of game. And this is still really just a preview of the main changes. Re-balancing of units and nations is ongoing.

    I hope you enjoy it when it is released! :)

    Cheers,
    Ftoomsh - (Pronounced fa-toomsh with the emphasis on "toomsh")
     
    Last edited: Mar 15, 2017
    General WVPM likes this.
  15. A. Soldier

    A. Soldier Active Member

    If I like what I see, I might try to implement the flag bearers to formations like I said I would, and if successful I will offer it to be added to your mod if you accept that is.

    I am not forcing anyone, however as seen from this topic: http://steamcommunity.com/app/333420/discussions/0/135510669602716963/ It's a highly requested feature.

    Sort of like the cannon crews were pre-release, I saw a lot of hot debates about that as well.
     
  16. (OC)Fotheringill

    (OC)Fotheringill Active Member

    "...Sort of like the cannon crews were pre-release, ...."

    I have been waiting for that one since I was a middle aged man.
     
  17. A. Soldier

    A. Soldier Active Member

    You sound just like my father haha.
     
  18. Ftoomsh

    Ftoomsh Well-Known Member

    Flag bearers would be great. We would certainly accept them if they are properly implemented and I know they would be. :)

    A key question is "What would the role of flag bearers be in the game?" Here is my list of guesses at this stage;

    (1) Eye Candy - Nothing wrong with this. The game is more immersive if it looks better.
    (2) Help color-blind people like me identify enemy nations. (It's true, distinctive flags could help me in some games!)
    (3) Modest Heal factor - A bit like Priests, remembering Priests are much less numerous in OC Mod and their Heal factor is reduced.
    (4) Add a slight attack and defense bonus to formation.
    (5) Maybe just add them to larger formations like 196 and 400? Make them necessary for these larger formations.
    (6) Have morale effects and "rally back to the flag" effects when the modding community solves morale for C3.

    These are just guesses at this stage. I am saying I like eye-candy for sure but real effects are important too.
     
  19. J0keR

    J0keR Well-Known Member

    So, we w8 for this too much ))
     
  20. Original-Cossacks-Player

    Original-Cossacks-Player Active Member

    Can I ask what your issue is with the vanilla market? When you say the OC mod uses a flat market trade system I am assume you mean their is no inflation/deflation on prices? Can I ask why you want to remove this, I think the market is realistic in the fact that supply and demand effect prices, exactly how a market system works in any country.
     
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