One question that made me come back: Who programmed the AI?

Discussion in 'General Discussions' started by Fulcrum, Nov 30, 2016.

  1. Fulcrum

    Fulcrum Active Member

    I need to know most notably who programmed the Sich Cossack annoyance? Stand like a man and say - I did this. I will not offend you, but your name needs to be here and visible to your future employers.
  2. yquinox

    yquinox Member

    I share your opinion. But if you think mercenary, just put 3 pikemans to guard every building and problem is solved. I also moded this unit in mod to cost more gold for every next unit, so it can decrease the total number of unit you will create due to high cost.
  3. Anderstein

    Anderstein Member

    They are a very annoying in multiplayer too.
    It would be nice when Sich Cossacks started at a high price and would become cheaper when time passes. If you buy many they could become expensive again.
  4. Falc09

    Falc09 Active Member

    Guard your buildings, build palisades and walls, have some own sich cossacks ready to intercept and keep an eye on the minimap.

    It's really not that hard to avoid those raids.

    In low pt settings its pretty annoying to keep many units guarding your homebase while one would need them for attacks instead. But thats kind of realistic, every new settlement had garrison brigades.
    `zerr and condor_fly like this.
  5. Fulcrum

    Fulcrum Active Member

    Put pikemen to your walls, buildings and etc. which are in progress and watch if the Cossacks would not destroy them by some reason. Then, watch how they`re split and require 3-4 guys extra to manage some own Sich Cossacks to intercept them. I have never ever seen anything so ridiculous - the micromanagement required by this piece of crap is unbelievable. Still waiting for someone to be a man enough and stand here saying - I did it.
  6. Falc09

    Falc09 Active Member

    I totally agree. Dealing with those stupid sich-cossacks attacks takes some micro management. So this costs some time, that one could spend otherwise better.
  7. There ist generally too much micromanagement needed in the game! I think of a new feature: DEFEND THE SETTLEMENT. The AI should manage it, e. g. in the visible area of an officer for all units there.
  8. Hansol333

    Hansol333 Active Member

    Well AI is terrible I try to mod that but so far without great process.

    Main problem.
    -at the beginning there is one attack with pike. However even on impossible it is very easy to beat them. I even modified the damage calculation and gave them +1 damage, still easy.

    -after that nothing. Ai trains units move them forwards or backwards but never attacks. Some attacks with sich cossacks from time to time but with a fence/wall easy to overcome.

    -once the AI reached 18c they attack way more often and with all units, mortars, hussars and so on.

    Main problem it is SOOO boring after the first attack. They attack way to less. One time at the beginning, then later on but during that time nothing. I even gave them +100% income and faster trained units but still nothing in the middle of the game. That is also the reason I dont use 17c cavalry. I dont need them, 17c pike is still useful later on and thanks to some changes even 17c musketeers. But since the AI never attacks I dont spend money on 17c cavalry. Better rach 18c fast and then train 18c cavalry.

    you can disable sich cossacks. Open, search for cossackdip and change
    [*] = ; gc_player_difficulty_normal : numdiver := 0;
    [*] = ; gc_player_difficulty_hard : numdiver := 0;
    [*] = ; gc_player_difficulty_veryhard : numdiver := 0;

    no more annoying early raider, However they still use hussars later on.

    Rather than these hit and run tactics I would prefer an open battle.
  9. [KGR]-^K[o]K^-

    [KGR]-^K[o]K^- Moderator Staff Member

    You and everybody who say this are funny to me... it looks like that you have not played StarCraft 1 and 2.
  10. @Hanssol333
    My favorite setting is immediate 18th c, normal, poor minerals. I cannot complain about the AI attack. I just tried normal instead of immediate 18th c. The AI attacked me with two pikemen formations - with a certain distance between the formations.
    Right, I am not familiar with Starcraft. Do you mean to say, that this is an excuse for the micromanagement? As you mentioned, there are more of my opionion. In the video from the tournament, that GSC linked on Facebook recently, you find only pikemen, Husars and specialized gunman. Why don't you find any cannons? The answer is: there is too much micromanagement needed. And the chasseurs are also helpless, if you leave them alone. They stand around and wait until pikemen or rider knock them out.
  11. Hansol333

    Hansol333 Active Member

    thanks for the advice, I will try with immediate 18c, maybe that will help

    comparing Cossacks with starcraft.

    -upgrades are not that super important in SC (except siege tank 2. attack upgrade). So if you use marine vs marine and the enemy has +1 attack researched before you it is not a total disaster (compared to for example 17c pike with +4 damage). upgrades are cheap and take a long time to research, you dont have to constantly research new stuff. on the other hand you can auto train units in C much better than in SC, were units are expensive and you constantly have to retrain them.

    generally SC needs more MM, especially spells like psi storm and so on. However you dont have to put soldiers everywhere in SC. And if the enemy destroys one of your bases, rebuilding is maybe not required since the resources are depleted anyway. Sending one hussar in an enemy camp can cause a lot of damage.

    What I do like in SC (and what all RTS games have) is plasma shields for buildings. Repairing stuff is so annoying. So if a unit attacks my building it will auto heal at least small attacks. Large attacks will drain the shield however.

    the amount of micromanagment needed in C3 is NOTHING compared to American conquest.

    -buildings dont attack when units are trained (you have to stop training and start again after the attack is over, forget that = lost game)

    -especially against armoured units you have to disable attack and allow it once the enemy is closer

    -if building start to burn you have to select peasants and repair them, same in C3 but in AQ they can burn to death even after one lucky hit.

    the game with the lowest micromanagment needed is as far I know rise of nations.
    -peasants auto start collecting stuff if there are nearby empty gathering spots
    -buildings can be repaired but also slowly heal automatically
    -units automatically become transporter ships if travelling water.
    -however units dont heal automatically, you have to select wounded ones, send them to a building, wait and let them out, that was kind of annoying.
    Last edited: Dec 6, 2016
  12. serdiuk38

    serdiuk38 New Member

    I think Sich Cossacks and other light carvaly is well programmed. They can flee big army and attack the weak points. When AI vs AI you can see they chase together like cats and mice :D
    But the AI to manage army formations is really bad. With a large army it becomes very "chaotic".
    They should see how AI manage formations in the C1 imperia mod.
  13. Fulcrum

    Fulcrum Active Member

    "When AI vs AI you can see they chase together like cats and mice"

    Because the AI can issue 1, 000, 000 commands in a second and a human player cannot. The AI does not need to watch different spots - it does watch all simultaneously and a human player cannot. Your comment is very crude. The AI infiltrates with these and then would often split them making a human player really look like an idiot. Not by skill of any kind.

    The AI is a disaster, massive one. After playing enough games I am 100% confident this is NOT a new engine but the old C1 engine. They lie to us. The Imperia mod had a reprogrammed AI which was much stronger. Situation gets like this - you go and buy a new Ford and the developers then tell you - well, its our legendary model but you find out the steering does not work, radio`s not installed at all, motor produces constant errors on the board computer, which has a badly programmed menu. When you show up at the showroom and ask, they`d tell you - wait for a service campaign and we`d fix it, we`re working hard. So you end up looking for other enthusiasts (modders) that can help fix the car so its driveable and maybe enjoyable. The game was an unfinished product and was a serious offense against the fans of the series.
  14. Falc09

    Falc09 Active Member

    A game engine offers the whole environment, where the game is built into, mostly regarding its grafics. C1 was based on a simple 1D map while C3 is in 3D and has real 3D objects and therefore utilizes a different engine.

    You are right, the AI Skripts seem to be pretty similar to C1, but no one said they have programmed a new AI. In the end its a multiplayer game so I don't care about AI. Even the best AI can't match a human opponent.
  15. Ebel

    Ebel Moderator Staff Member

    That is just plain wrong.
    In fact, if it was the old c1 engine , we wouldn't be having all these bugs we are having now.

    It's a new engine alright, with all it's fault's and shortcomings.

    If you pay good attention , you will see the AI behaves different than it used to in C1, by which I haven't said it's great, but there are clear improvements over the old one.
    Eugène de Savoie and Ftoomsh like this.
  16. James Hayes

    James Hayes Active Member

    Have you played 4 AI vs 1 Human? I haven't been able to defeat 4 yet. Also 1 Human 2 AI vs 5 AI? can be done but difficult depending on where the game puts you on the map.

    Personally I have played online and when you set "rules" which you are not able to via game options people just ignore them so for example you say no mortors,multibarrelled etc no dipimatic center and when you come to battle you see they have do everything you said not too..
  17. Falc09

    Falc09 Active Member

    Of course you cannot win alone vs 4 AI in hardest setting. Thats no prove for the good quality of the AI, you will be totally outnumbered.

    Anyway, I never complained about the AI, I just don't care about it at all. It's a multiplayer game and thats it. More rules and options would be nice but that comes with the problem that the host usually sets up rules that support his nation or playing style.

    One can already see it every night: the host plays as prussia and sets 'instant 18ct'. The hosts takes ukraine and sets 'no 18 ct.'. The host takes Algeria and sets 'no walls, towers and cannons'.
  18. James Hayes

    James Hayes Active Member

    I know that doesnt prove AI is programmed well, im just saying for a challenge if the AI arent that good just add more :)
  19. Aistis1990

    Aistis1990 Active Member

    What i hate the most here is AI. I mean i make game (No art) still there's horde of enemies that always uses mortars. No matter what rules i play. All the same. I played campaign (Polish one) and there was no cannons for both sides. It was so nice to play. And now everywhere Mortars and howitzers. Makes playing against AI useless. I must make art as well but I don't wanna use it ;/
  20. Fulcrum

    Fulcrum Active Member

    Can you point out a few improvements over the old one? While technically it may be a new engine, it is programmed like the old one - very poor. As someone commented in one of the Steam reviews, gameplay is 450B.C. I`ve always considered the Microsoft Windows to be a scam, a perfect example of unfinished product being thrown to the mob, but GSC and their offspring beat all.
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