Option to auto-fill idle mines

Discussion in 'Suggestions' started by Anatotitan, Sep 28, 2016.

  1. Anatotitan

    Anatotitan Active Member

    I would like it if there was an option to just send peasants to mines automatically if the mines aren't completely full. I could see two options for that:

    • If you select peasants, there is either a hot key for them to automatically walk to the nearest mine and work there, or you can just right click on the "idle mines" symbol on the top left to send them there.
    • If you select an idle mine, there is a button that makes idle peasants go into that mine automatically.

    Either of those options would be fine. It takes a bit too much looking around the way it is currently to fill idle means, because you never see instantly what mine is the idle one, and then again you have to send peasants there. It would be easier if we got the spacebar hot key from C1 back that makes the screen focus on the selected unit, but the option to auto-fill would be even better than that.

    If the dev team does not consider that, maybe a mod can be made to add this feature.
     
    Aduhi, Hugojackson18 and Masher like this.
  2. Ebel

    Ebel Moderator Staff Member

  3. emulert

    emulert Member

    this one what i was imaging
     
  4. Masher

    Masher Active Member

    Would be a nice quality of life feature.
     
  5. nixpuh

    nixpuh New Member

    it would be a nice comfortable option. But i think it would casualize the game :) A small tip for what i do is. Press the empty mine button and watch the minimap for the white dots so you can find the empty mines pretty fast and fill them :)
     
  6. Foeurdr

    Foeurdr Moderator Staff Member

    I don't think it casualize much the game, mine management is just some little micro management, it doesn't take lot of time it just tedious when you upgrade several of them and you need to fill them with peasant. Maybe the most complicated matter with this auto fill option would be to make sure the game take the right peasants. If he take the farmer and leave me with no one to collect food it won't be nice at all.

    I would be hapy with just an option to jump directly to the empty mines more than searching them on the mini map each time (sometimes I forget which one I upgraded)
     
  7. Masher

    Masher Active Member

    Double click the empty mine button top left corner, it jumps right to the empty mine. If you have multiple empty mines it will jusp somewhere between them.
     
  8. Anatotitan

    Anatotitan Active Member

    I know how to use the mini map, that's the way I do it already, but it is just cumbersome. It doesn't really take any skill, it just takes time. Time that I could spend doing something more important.

    This is why I wrote that it should only pick idle peasants.
     
    wildlumberjack likes this.
  9. nixpuh

    nixpuh New Member

    Then you should automize base building completly :D It all just takes time and no skill.
    - Assigning peasants to wood stone and food
    - Building houses baracks stables
    - just literally everything what has nothing to do with tactics & fighting
    The skill behind all of this is managing your time! Getting your prioritys straight while playing the game.
    The more things are comfortable the less skill it requires to play the game.
     
  10. Anatotitan

    Anatotitan Active Member

    I agree with you to some degree, I really do, but there is a difference between taking skill and being cumbersome. I feel like expanding your mines steps over that fine line because it requires multiple steps (that can largely be summarized into two main steps: step 1: select the mine, upgrade it, wait for the upgrade to finish; step 2: choose peasants, send them to the mine) compared to upgrades for other ressource types that take effect automatically after being researched. So I do think in this case it would be okay to streamline the process for mines. I am not saying that everything should run automatically, I just think that the two main steps necessary to expand a mine are a bit much when compared to other ressources.
     
    Aduhi likes this.
  11. nixpuh

    nixpuh New Member

    What annoys me more personally is that if you want to build mines or add workers. You cant just select 20 workers and shift build or order to go mine all of them. If you want to build 2 or more mines you need to build one.. reselect left workers.. build another one.. reselect workers ... build another one.. Thats the one whichs personally annoys me more..

    I still think the upgrading mines mechanism is fine because at least in my case its more like a long term investment because i only upgrade mines which i think i will hold till i lose the game. Because even the first upgrade with 1250gold its quite huge considered with 100 stone for a new one :)

    And talking about mines i think there is a bug which i encountered a couple of times in multiplayer that i couldnt retake my raided mines even though the ***** raiding horseriders where already long gone. I had to destroy mine to reclaim my spot. Somebody else also encountered this?
     
  12. Anatotitan

    Anatotitan Active Member

    Hold shift while building mines. Holding shift while building structures queues them up so the workers will make them order. It makes building mines much easier as a result because you can just select 20 peasants, hold shift and build 4 mines and the group of peasants will split up and build the mines automatically.

    1250 is not that much in mid-game. You should always get as many mines as you can, even far out ones because spending 100 wood and stone and 5 peasants to get an important ressource like gold and iron even for just a few minutes is worth it. Of course you should only upgrade those that are close to your base/main army.

    Can't say I encountered your bug, sorry. Seems though that sometimes taking over enemy's buildings can be a bit stiff, even without a guard around.
     
  13. DennisUA

    DennisUA Member

    it would be great
     
  14. Anatotitan

    Anatotitan Active Member

    Bumping this topic because I am still interested in an auto-fill button for idle mines.
     
    Aduhi likes this.
  15. Ftoomsh

    Ftoomsh Well-Known Member

    I agree. We do need auto-fill for mines. My clan's mod OCOMOD3 makes much greater use of mines. Because we have moderated stone mining and because we have moderated the market returns and removed reverse trading in our mod, it is now the case that mines have to be upgraded a whole lot more in OCMOD3. This is intentional and part of our overall design. We want each resource to be best collected directly. Trading is a secondary and emergency measure. I have also modded the costs of mine upgrades and the number of extra miners each upgrade gives is more related to the upgrade cost. This helps the issue a little bit maybe. But there is still so much micro in upgrading and filling mines.

    I have said this before, the game needs some other special upgrades (even while maybe reducing the total number of upgrades overall). An "Overseer" upgrade would be great. You would have to micro resources early but then the Overseer upgrade would relieve you of that work, of that micro.

    How it would work (concept wise) would be like this. Once you have the overseer upgrade, the overseer prioritises as follows and operates automatically;

    (a) Fills the highest priority mine (gold) that is not full using workers from which ever of food, wood or stone gathering has already accumulated the highest amount.
    (b) Fills the next highest priority mine (iron) that is not full using workers from which ever of food, wood or stone gathering has already accumulated the highest amount.
    (c) Fills the next highest priority mine (coal) that is not full using workers from which ever of food, wood or stone gathering has already accumulated the highest amount.

    A second tier overseer upgrade could give you access to a rough balancing of food, wood and stone income as well. With controls you could set target worker ratios. For example if you set [1 : 1 : 1] then it juggles numbers on each site to get close to the same number of peasants on food, wood and stone. It wouldn't try to fix actual income disparities as that would be more complicated. If you set [2:1:1] then you would soon get 50% of above surface peasants on food, 25% on wood and 25% on stone.

    The overseer upgrades could be placed in the town center. The TC has plenty of unused "boxes" in its menu.


    I will mention here a concept I would call "Use of AI functions to assist players with micro".

    A really good AI would do something like the above consistent with its goal seeking routines. It would have to have overall economic and military goal seeking routines of course. Once the AI has these functions programmed into it then all the Overseer upgrade does is give the basic AI peasant management to the player. The idea is that when the game is starting and small the player needs enough to do (and can do it more intelligently) so the player does it himself. As the game gets bigger and bigger (remember it can go up to 10,000 units (economic plus military), then the player needs to be progressively relieved of some of the economic micro to have more time to fight good battles.
     
    Last edited: Apr 6, 2017
    Aduhi likes this.
  16. Daddio

    Daddio Moderator Staff Member

    In C2 You payed for an upgrade, and it build its own miners. The system was super easy, and required no mirco.

    Best system ever.

    Daddio
     
    Aduhi likes this.
  17. Commodore

    Commodore Active Member

    if you allocated free housing spaces to mines as well that would encourage people to develop them. So an undeveloped mine is worth 5 housing, fully developed = 95 housing.
     
    Aduhi likes this.
  18. brocart

    brocart New Member

    I fully agree with Nixpuyh.

    Automation is good if you want the game to be cazualized.
    So this is a very bad idea.
    Every micro aspect of an RTS makes it beautiful and underlight skill differences between players.
    Otherwise, everybody has the same army in the same amount of time, as economy solely makes difference after 12 minutes when you get all stone upgrades and make dragoons...
     
  19. Ftoomsh

    Ftoomsh Well-Known Member

    Everything is better in C2 land?! ;)

    I am a C1/C2/C3 hybrid mod fan. It's called OCMOD3 for a reason. :)

    I will be using the best ideas from all three as much as I can. Of course, we all have our own opinions on what precisely are the best ideas.
     
  20. Anatotitan

    Anatotitan Active Member

    I generally agree with your sentiment that a lot of micro management increases the skill ceiling of a game, but I think the approach to this needs to be more nuanced than just "reducing micro is a very bad idea". Since I assume you have played Cossacks 1 a lot, you will have noticed that the game already automized some of the micro management since its first installment. In Cossacks 1 you had to send the specific amount of peasants (namely, five of them) to build a mine, otherwise all but the five that went inside would have remained idle upon finishing the mine. This is no longer the case in C3, as the game will never send more than five peasants to build a mine. Also, queueing up many actions and constructions for the peasants is also much easier in C3 than it was in C1. We have to ask ourselves at what point this is a "quality of life" improvement, and at what point it is "casualisation" that diminishes the skill necessary to play the game.
    And I think that fine line has to do with the general design decisions of the game. C3 seems a bit schizophrenic in that regard:

    On the one hand, ressources like wood, food and stone are really easy to obtain, since you can even put gather points from the townhalls onto those ressources and have all produced peasants from that building automatically gather said ressource. On top of that, all researched upgrades for these three ressource types have their effects automatically after being finished. You don't need to re-assign peasants to gather ressources or whatever, they just get a flat bonus.

    On the other hands, you cannot auto-send workers to mines (only when they are being built), and upgrading mines does not add a flat bonus, it gives you the ability to send more workers into mines. This process is not only much more complex than gathering food, wood and rocks, it is also less fruitful, leading to a ridiculous imbalance in the amount of ressources you possess in the mid and late game - creating the so often criticized stone-selling economy of Cossacks. Now an imbalance in ressources is not a bad thing, in fact it is very much a driving factor for the gameplay, and having one ressource type harder to obtain than the other forces a player to put thought into how he approaches the ressource game. But I think it is a bit too extreme in Cossacks, without necessarily benefitting the complexity of playstyles.

    I am not even sure if an auto-assign buttons for idle mines would necessarily change that, but it would, in my opinion, be a nice "quality of life" improvement that would incentivize players even more to upgrade their mines. Micro-management is interesting when it forces the player to make decisions. The upgrading of mines is not a decision, it is busy work. You click on a button, wait for a countdown, then click on the mine with the selected peasants. There is no decision making involved, except maybe some minor time management, because you always have such an abundant number of peasants after the first five minutes that not sending some of them into a mine will not be a valid option. And since you have the "show idle mines" button anyway, it is really just checking off a checklist. That is why I do not think an auto-assign button for idle mines would be detrimental to the gameplay: ressource gathering in Cossacks 3 is not very micro-heavy to begin with.

    But then again, I would not call myself a high-level Cossacks player, these are just my observations.
     
    Aduhi likes this.
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