Slower-paced combat

Discussion in 'Modding' started by Monsieur Jompe, Sep 28, 2016.

  1. Monsieur Jompe

    Monsieur Jompe New Member

    First off, I want to thank everybody who's involved in the modding efforts for this game; it's fantastic to see that people are already deciphering the tools provided as best as they can without developer support. I'm eagerly looking forward to what you can accomplish!

    Now, what I wanted to ask is this: is it possible to tweak the unit stats in order to make battles slower and less chaotic? Like many before me have suggested, this would mean longer reload times and less melee damage. Also, it'd be amazing to see some kind of morale system implemented, since I'd be interested to see an alternative for the constant fights till the last man. Lastly, I've been wondering if units could be made to stand ground by default: this would prevent those snaking lines with ranged units creeping forward in search of new targets and instead force them to keep their formation. Based on these suggestions, you've probably already guessed that I loved Cossacks II! That's why I'd love to see how far the old Cossacks I formula can be pushed within the existing game mechanics.
    Nowy and Lorenzo Paoli like this.
  2. A. Soldier

    A. Soldier Active Member

    This is actively being discussed among both the ordinary and modding communities.

    What you basically want is a recreated American Conquest, which would be very hard to do right now.

    Perhaps an attempt could be made after the release of a workshop and additional tools for the game but sadly not before most probably.

    But in all honesty I would perfer if the devs made American Conquest 2 instead of us.
    Hugojackson18 likes this.
  3. Monsieur Jompe

    Monsieur Jompe New Member

    Appreciate the reply! Guess there's nothing to do for now except to wait for the promised mod support.

    Would you say, then, that no steps whatsoever can be taken right now towards this? No way to access and alter unit stats, for instance?
  4. Francesco_Cavalli

    Francesco_Cavalli Active Member

    There's no question that we can alter the stats (increase load times, slow combat, perhaps even attempt to make units hold formation better in melee by increasing bound boxes) but there's no way we can add in morale, unless the code is already there and just not activated. Which sadly I doubt is the case
    Monsieur Jompe likes this.
  5. A. Soldier

    A. Soldier Active Member

    What Francesco basically said, to add to that, everything which you have said here is PROBABLY possible right now as well, it would just be VERY, very hard.

    You could try, but would be PROBABLY, very hard, again.
  6. Ftoomsh

    Ftoomsh Well-Known Member

    I think you might be pleasantly surprised. It is possible, I think, that code for morale is already in the game and just not activated. This C3 game has a C2 "look" about it and I suspect, but don't know, that the engine might be more like a C2 engine than a C1 engine. I modded C1 a bit and found sources that showed that garrisoning buildings, for example, was possible in C1 but just not activated or used in C1 BTW. So a game can have features in its engine which are just not activated.

    In any case, with scripts I think you will be able to declare and integrate new unit parameters like morale and fatigue. I will give an example of how radically scripts can alter game mechanics, if the engine physics and parameters are good. In a game called Supreme Commander / Forged Alliance ( a futuristic RTS still played at the Forged Alliance Forever site) there are defence shields. They look like big bubbles. Ordinarily, when enemy fire, say cannon projectiles, hit the defence shields they explode and degrade the shield power a bit. One fellow wrote a mod where the shells would instead bounce off the shields at the correct ricochet angle and fly elsewhere using correct projectile physics for the game engine. I think they still degraded shield power. Then the shells would explode when they hit the ground. This is not the same thing as morale of course but it shows what can be done. Morale is just another life-bar style implementation. You need a parameter called morale with a possible value of say 0 to 100. Average morale would be 50. Zero morale is when troops break and run away. 100 morale is "I will charge direct into canister fire". Different events would add or subtract morale. One way morale could be implemented when morale bar hits zero (0) for enough troops in a formation would be to automatically invoke the disband formation feature for that formation. Then for shooters at least, disable any bayonet if possible, and increase their minimum shooting distance to a very big value. They will then naturally run away from all enemy as per standard engine actions. Now this is pure untested theory or speculation on my part but I would be hopeful there would be ways to implement morale in this engine.

    However, final point. I think there is no point modding a game until it is substantially stable and debugged. That might take while yet. ::confused:
    Nowy and Loner like this.
  7. Francesco_Cavalli

    Francesco_Cavalli Active Member

    A little something for you Monsieur Jompe - by no means complete (or even pre-alpha in terms of realism) but slowed rates of fire, increased health and nerf'd dragoons attached here - just make a backup of your unit.script folder and copy this one into C:\Program Files (x86)\Steam\SteamApps\common\Cossacks 3\data\scripts\lib.

    Frontal cavalry charges are pretty disastrous now, dragoons can't tear holes in infantry (unless, as the ai likes to do, you mass 300 of them) and vollwys are a little more cohesive. Grenadiers also brought to a par with Muskets in terms of hp and range.

    I'm working on lowering accuracy and adding secondary attacks for dragoons at the moment - more to follow in the next few weeks!

    Attached Files:

  8. Kneecap

    Kneecap Member

    Speaking of volleys, there seems to be a projectile script in the game, seeing as how archers and cannons can miss their intended target (but if the projectile hits another target, it still does damage). Would it be possible to implement this to the musketry units, to simulate the inaccuracy of gunpowder weapons in that era?
  9. A. Soldier

    A. Soldier Active Member

    Again, it was something already present in American Conquest.

    I'm guessing an American Conquest 2 is going to become a reality next year if we don't make a mod out of it first that is.

    But still, I prefer GSC make the base game so we can mod it from there.
  10. Daddio

    Daddio Moderator Staff Member

    I agree, But I expect that a AC2, or even an C2 mod will become a reality before GSC gets to it. Or much more likely some mod will raise up, and be supported by GSC and become an official game.

  11. Francesco_Cavalli

    Francesco_Cavalli Active Member

    Done! It's very complex, though. Originally, muskets had no physical projectile, but rather applied the damage automatically. I've changed this to something more like a cannon, but as it stands the best projectile model I have is the howitzer fragment - small, but they still look odd (being able to see them at all, that is) AND fly a touch too slowly. what I need is a fast flying, invisible but still present object.
    Kneecap likes this.
  12. noah.c

    noah.c New Member

    You should reduce pikemen's defence against bullets, that's what I'm doing in my balance mod and it improves the game and allows muskets to be viable early game.
  13. A. Soldier

    A. Soldier Active Member

    Yes but if you go too overboard with it Pikemen lose their purpose.
  14. Kneecap

    Kneecap Member

    Hmm, would it be possible to alter the characteristics of that projectile? Like... Some lines of code has to contain its properties, like speed and size right? I'm asking because I have no clue about modding game files. :p
  15. Francesco_Cavalli

    Francesco_Cavalli Active Member

    None for size - got around this by using the canister shot script, but while this removes visible projectiles it has the odd effect of changing where smoke is expelled (some leaves from the fuse but the bulk now shoots from the feet...will have another look when I'm not at work. To get it to work there are three components: the musket shot entry, the projectile itself, and the point of impact (the last calculates accuracy), so there's a lot to play around with
  16. Nowy

    Nowy Well-Known Member

    Yes it is possible, but how to convince GSC to change units stats and make few other things in C 3 game?
    They simply did not listen to wise fans and did not improve old well known C1 flwas.
    There were lot of discussions in these matters and nothing positive happen. :(

    Slower paced combat, well organized squads, armies fighting orderly and adequately to well known historical tactics would be welcome in this game. Morale, fatigue and few other effects also are do able, devs could do it, but they chose make C1 copy paste into C3 which obviously works bad.

    C1 forumla maybe was fine 16 years ago, but today customers wants much more innovations.

    More sensible combats are one from many features which GSC have to implement in this game. :cool:
    Juxer and Loner like this.
  17. A. Soldier

    A. Soldier Active Member

    American Conquest.

  18. Nowy

    Nowy Well-Known Member

    I prefer C2.
    Nevertheless there is a C3 case and my propositions are directly for this game.

    I do not believe that mods could help, when GSC have not improved basic things yet.
  19. A. Soldier

    A. Soldier Active Member

    Mods can do what GSC has not done yet.
  20. Kneecap

    Kneecap Member

    As it stands now, C3 feels like a mere reskin of C1. Although with less features this time around. However, I give thanks to the devs for being willing to ressurect the Cossacks franchise. The market isnt exactly overflowing with RTSes anymore. And the devs have made the game fairly open for modders so I hope the mod scene for this game will grow. :D
    Loner and Nowy like this.
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